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Edgeworks Forums   »   General   »   Off Topic   »   Hi Einstein, science here. Listen, about relativity...
spartan117 Jan 13 2012, 8:25pm


Joined: Jul 19th, 2005
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I'm glad.

If you think about it, the US would never have bombed Japan if he was wrong.

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"Spartan117 explores his sexuality via an internet forum." - Nick
"Spartan117, boldly going where no one else really wants to go." - Trance
   
 
SMJ Jan 28 2012, 10:14pm


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The first thought through my head when I read Trance's brief description was as follows:

1. Objects look bent when partially submerged in water, because the density of water affects the speed of light differently than that of air. Therefore, the speed of light is not constant.

2. To the best of our knowledge, neutrinos are unaffected by other matter; which is why they pass through matter so easily.

3. We must use objects (i.e. lenses) in order to measure the speed of light AND neutrinos.

3.1. If light is affected by matter, and neutrinos are not, then the measurements will be affected by the density of the material used in order to measure it.

4. If this was not corrected for, then the results may be invalid.

TL;DR - Sounds like user-error to me.

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Sex is like a velociraptor : despite your movie-fueled lifelong neurotic obsession, unlikely to be found in your house.

   
 
squattingb
Jan 29 2012, 2:36am


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we know that the speed of light is not constant in various mediums, see cherenekov radiation.

But... what they were referring to was the absolute speed of light as measured in a vacuum, this is as fast as light would ever go.

Irregardless, I think at this point this experiment has been proven false...

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Scar Jan 29 2012, 10:42am


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Irregardless


As an English Major, GHO;IHTEIOH;I THAT'S NOT A WORD

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squattingb
Jan 29 2012, 5:06pm


Joined: Apr 15th, 2005
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:P

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spartan117 Feb 1 2012, 2:37pm


Joined: Jul 19th, 2005
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The first thought through my head when I read Trance's brief description was as follows:

1. Objects look bent when partially submerged in water, because the density of water affects the speed of light differently than that of air. Therefore, the speed of light is not constant.

2. To the best of our knowledge, neutrinos are unaffected by other matter; which is why they pass through matter so easily.

3. We must use objects (i.e. lenses) in order to measure the speed of light AND neutrinos.

3.1. If light is affected by matter, and neutrinos are not, then the measurements will be affected by the density of the material used in order to measure it.

4. If this was not corrected for, then the results may be invalid.

TL;DR - Sounds like user-error to me.


Even though I only have a basic high school level interpretation of physics, I understand that objects appear to bend while submerged because of how water affects light waves, but I'm currently under the assumption that light does this in order to retain its' constant speed.

The only two properties of waves which I know of that can adjust to accommodate this constant are wavelength or frequency, and these properties will change depending on the material which the wave is traveling through in question.

The only thing I can't understand with this idea is if the wavelength or frequency of the light reflecting off of the object while it's submerged changed, the color would have to change too.

I'd appreciate some clarity on this matter.

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"Spartan117 explores his sexuality via an internet forum." - Nick
"Spartan117, boldly going where no one else really wants to go." - Trance
   
 
Zukan Feb 1 2012, 4:05pm


Joined: Feb 24th, 2005
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It does change color, it's just not as obvious to notice the closer you are to the surface. Any white object sinking in deep water will slowly become greener and eventually blue.
Look what happens to the beach on this image:


you can see it even clearer on waves:
   
 
squattingb
Feb 1 2012, 5:02pm


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change of frequency or wavelength or speed is not the reason why water appears blue to green to clear as water depth becomes shallower and shallower. That purely has to do with the permeativity of light through water. A white object will NOT change colour as it sinks, it will get "darker" and eventually disappear but not because the wavelength of light or its frequency or speed is changing as the object sinks.

Changes in light only occurs at the boundary between two mediums, not within the medium itself if it is a constant and uniform medium, which is the case for an incompressible fluid such as water.

s117 if you want more info on refraction see Snell's law: here

to further back up my point about colour not changing, see this: Link

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Zukan Feb 1 2012, 7:15pm


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Can you explain what you mean by "permeativity of light through water"? What I have been taught is that light scatters when it travels through water and depending on how deep it goes, most wavelengths will scatter or be absorbed quicker than blue until no light is left. So white light bouncing on a white object deep underwater and back into our eyes will not be perceived as white but blue (and darker of course).

And I'm sorry about confusing refraction with color changes.
   
 
squattingb
Feb 1 2012, 7:29pm


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well, what I took from your analogy was that you reasoned light changes colour as it moves through water depending on how much water there is. Thus implying that the light itself is actually shifting frequencies and therefore perceived colour. My reasoning is that it's not because light is changing colour, but rather less or more light is able to make it to our eyes through the water and therefore we need the change.

a white object sinking through water will always appear white, though it will slowly disappear from view as the object sinks deep and less light reaches the object from the surface of the water and is no longer reflected back to our eyes. there may be a tint of blue due to scattering as you said but I had figured your original reason was because light itself was changing frequency as it traveled further and further through the water. Sorry for misunderstanding!

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squattingb
Feb 22 2012, 4:21pm


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So it turns out the error was caused by a technical oversight of the facepalm kind.

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Zukan Feb 23 2012, 5:38pm


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I owe someone a beer now...
Good thing is someone else owes me a beer too.
   
 
squattingb
Feb 23 2012, 10:10pm


Joined: Apr 15th, 2005
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NET GAIN OF ZERO BEER.

SCIENCE!

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