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Reaper195 Oct 13 2010, 8:13pm


Joined: Jul 25th, 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 11,109
Achievements: 18


SO....I typed in 'Religion' in the search bar, and found the rotting corpse of an old religious thread more about which religion people are (that sounds stupid) and decided against bringing that...thing...back from the dead. Besides, people would call it a miracle.

This was brought on by a interesting conversation with my flatmate a while ago. We all know that in Catholic belief (Those that are Catholic), there was a massive war in heaven, when Lucifer was all pissed off at God because he wasn't getting the attention he wanted. Anyway, after this war, God told him to get a job and move out, so he did, taking a third of heavens angels with him to Hell. I'm not entirely sure of the bollocks that went on in between, but now...people believe that those that sin, and do not repent forgiveness, or don't believe in God and Jesus and etc, they go to hell for eternal torturing (Like in Little Nicky, with Hitler).

Aside from the fact that simply not believing in someone/thing is a bullshit reason for eternal suffering, why is Lucifer doing this? Personally, I don't believe at all for my own reasons, but last I checked, there was a saying that went 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend (unless the enemy of my enemy is also a dick)'. So wouldn't Lucifer like those that don't believe in God, and like even more that believe in God, but go against him, be it devil worshippers, the Satanist churches, the murderers, drug dealers, all the things that go against God?

To nut it down, why would you torture those that disobey your enemy?

Another part of the conversation was the eternal damnation part. Ignoring the above concept, and Hitler, and Joseph Fritz....well, you get the idea; is there any real act in the world that actually asks to be tortured forever? I mean, simply not believing in God is worthy of that. Murder...maybe a hundred years of raping by a thousand monkeys. Stealing? Twenty years with no hands. Cheating on your wife? Well...depends on the reasons (I.E. you haven't got a divorce, but she's ruining your life somehow). Personally, the only people I think who deserve any form of torture for an incredibly long time are child abusers/molesters, wankers that beat on women to make themselves feel strong, and people who are purposefully cruel to animals simply for the fun on it.




Also....half created for the lack of a real religion (Pun intended) thread.

-------------------------------

"Help! That sinister looking kid is coming to kill me! Help! HELP!"

Hail to the king, baby!
Always Blow On The Pie


Time waits for no one. So you better get busy living, or get busy dying.
   
 
floodrock Oct 13 2010, 8:48pm


Joined: Mar 27th, 2009
Location: Alaska the land of igloos and polar bears
Posts: 1,995
Achievements: 12


Yeah, i dont get the whole eternal dammnation thing. I was brought up prodestent so it was unless you invite Jesus Christ into your heart, well sucks to be you. Well what if youve lived a good life, BUT NEVER HEARD OF RELIGION. never worshipped anything else, never mean, bad, murder, rape, etc. Well, just sucks to be you?

-------------------------------
idk

especially if there's a repeat of earlier this morning. She left quite happy
-Aglor

QUOTE (Reaper195 @ Nov 24 2010, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Woke up, thinking I should lie in bed for ages, and then maybe watch new Stargate Universe. Rolled over and noticed it was ten to eight. "OH FOUR! I mean FIVE! I mean F**K! IT"S THURSDAY, NOT SATURDAY!"


QUOTE (Disease @ Nov 23 2010, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In Soviet Russia, Ambush Ambushes you!


QUOTE (Reaper195 @ Jan 6 2011, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1 was pretty cool. 2 was "WOO! THat one puckered up my butthole!"



Reapers 10K post
.
Pff, ten thousand posts...if only I could care about such a thing. For caring about ones' post count is as vain as a vein wanting to pump sterling silver through the body for its own lulz. And we all know how Lulz affects the world. Just look at World War 2. Did you all honestly think Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews because he wanted to crate a master race that even he looked nothing like? I SAY BALLS TO THAT! BALLS TO ALL OF THAT! Balls to so mucyh of that, that this pretentious post has nothing whatsoever in the effects of the global war economy. That's right, I f**king said it, and not when referencing MGS4. Imaginitive ten thousand post mark? I think not....



And also, I demand everyone on the forum to sig-quote that. All of you. Especially you, Geo. You British guy you.
   
 
Sarge McCla Oct 13 2010, 9:09pm


Joined: Aug 17th, 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,112
Achievements: 11


Most theologians argue that Satan's original sin was pride and arrogance: That he knew better how to be God, than well...God. Theologians will also say that the catalyst for Lucifers rebellion was the creation of man. Lucifer felt that humanity was given a position that they did not deserve. Think about how pissed someone gets when they're passed up for promotion. Now take that and ramp it up to a metaphysical level of epic proportion. So yah, Satan hates God...but he REALLY hates mankind. Satan means "The Accuser". He WANTS people to go to hell. He doesn't want them to go to heaven, because he doesn't want humanity to be close to God. Hell, more than the fire and brimstone and physical torture, is describe in the bible as total and complete separation from God. Satan knows that God is perfect, and perfection cannot tolerate imperfection. Thus he tempts humanity into sin, to prevent them from having any relationship with God.

But God has a backup plan. That would be Jesus Christ. According to Christianity everyone has a debt to pay, regardless. Everyone has sinned. Everyone has fallen out of favor with God. Jesus Christ takes on the penalty for himself. You get the benefit of going to heaven. Christianity states that you were never ENTITLED to be in heaven to begin with. So its not considered unfair at all. According to the Bible, there is really only one unforgivable sin, and that's not accepting the sacrifice.


Hope that somewhat answers your question Reaper.
   
 
Aglor Oct 13 2010, 9:42pm


Joined: Jan 31st, 2006
Location: The Twilight Zone
Posts: 7,608
Achievements: 20


<--quoteo(post=271753:date=Oct 13 2010, 08:13 PM:name=Reaper195)-->
QUOTE (Reaper195 @ Oct 13 2010, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->To nut it down, why would you torture those that disobey your enemy?<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
Popular misconception: Satan/Lucifer/Whatever is not said to be the king of hell or whatever. He's a prisoner too.

<--quoteo(post=271756:date=Oct 13 2010, 08:48 PM:name=floodrock)-->
QUOTE (floodrock @ Oct 13 2010, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->Yeah, i dont get the whole eternal dammnation thing. I was brought up prodestent so it was unless you invite Jesus Christ into your heart, well sucks to be you.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
Protestant, because they protested against the Catholic Church. smile.gif

-------------------------------
6-2-2010- Last day at the station. It's all over now.

"You go Aglor! Get dat b-day humping!"
-floodrock

"If you get blown up, I don't care"
-General William Sherman

"Only two things are ever constant. Human stupidity and the Universe. And I'm not too sure about the second."
-Albert Einstein

Euclid's Fifth Postulate: So controversial it's almost a theorem!

"Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."
-Marcus Brigstocke

Ask me why I keep on loving you when it's clear that you don't feel the same way for me... the problem is that as much as I can't force you to love me, I can't force myself to stop loving you.
-Author Unknown
   
 
Trance Oct 13 2010, 9:50pm


Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Location: 1, Rotation: 0
Posts: 6,439
Achievements: 14


oh hi guys i see you're talking about fantasy novels

i quite like lord of the rings
   
 
Disease Oct 13 2010, 10:16pm


Joined: Apr 20th, 2006
Location: Vermilion, Ohio
Posts: 7,525
Achievements: 15


wait wait wait wait wait . . .

Lord of the Rings is a fantasy? WTF!?

-------------------------------
My Livestream Channel
   
 
Sarge McCla Oct 13 2010, 11:10pm


Joined: Aug 17th, 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,112
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He wouldn't be Trance if he wasn't pretentious. tongue.gif

Just want to add one more thing. Satan in the Bible is not the Satan that most people have come to know. He isn't a super villain. The Bible's approach to Satan is that of a being who's already lost, knows this, and just wants to take as many people with him before his eventual demise.
   
 
Trance Oct 13 2010, 11:29pm


Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Location: 1, Rotation: 0
Posts: 6,439
Achievements: 14


<--quoteo(post=271764:date=Oct 13 2010, 10:10 PM:name=Sarge McCla)-->
QUOTE (Sarge McCla @ Oct 13 2010, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->He wouldn't be Trance if he wasn't pretentious. tongue.gif<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
And I've got the whole Sunday to myself, too. smile.gif Pretentious to you only.

I bet if Tolkien scrapped the whole scratchbuilt world and lore approach and used the names of real places and civilizations like the Bible did, we'd have a much more viral religion than Scientology by today.
   
 
Aglor Oct 14 2010, 8:24am


Joined: Jan 31st, 2006
Location: The Twilight Zone
Posts: 7,608
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No doubt about it. Oh, isn't religion fun?

On a related note, I went to a mormon church (keep in mind I'm an atheist now) because I had to do a community classroom observation. The mormon church is... interesting. By which I mean they're all dumb asses. Nice as hell, but morons.

-------------------------------
6-2-2010- Last day at the station. It's all over now.

"You go Aglor! Get dat b-day humping!"
-floodrock

"If you get blown up, I don't care"
-General William Sherman

"Only two things are ever constant. Human stupidity and the Universe. And I'm not too sure about the second."
-Albert Einstein

Euclid's Fifth Postulate: So controversial it's almost a theorem!

"Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."
-Marcus Brigstocke

Ask me why I keep on loving you when it's clear that you don't feel the same way for me... the problem is that as much as I can't force you to love me, I can't force myself to stop loving you.
-Author Unknown
   
 
Trance Oct 14 2010, 10:12am


Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Location: 1, Rotation: 0
Posts: 6,439
Achievements: 14


"Have you accepted Jesus into your heart?"
"I'm sure you mean 'Have you accepted Jesus into your schedule book, wallet, and voting habits'. Considering the guy never existed in the way he's depicted in the book, if he existed at all, I'd have to say no. After all, acceptance of him does tend to come packaged with the acceptance of a specific book as historical fact which is full to bursting of patently fictional occurrences unobserved anywhere else in actual history or reality. Oh, and the acceptance that there exists a dude in the sky who is on the one hand omnipotent, omniscient, and supposedly loving of his creations, but tends to be in most interactions with them petty, vengeful, homicidal, domineering, or some combination of the four. I imagine it's like living with a psychotic uncle who you've heard got away with murder and you're careful not to piss off for the sake of your own safety. It's all surely gripping reading material for a lazy afternoon, but I'm not sure I want to devote my life's limited resources to it in order to pretend it's a more important book than it actually is. Too many people do that nowadays, and I've not been one for fan clubs. So considering all the extra baggage Jesus travels with, I'm probably better off not letting him anywhere near my heart."
"TL;DR laterz"
   
 
Geo Ghost Oct 14 2010, 2:45pm


Joined: May 26th, 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,952
Achievements: 15


Religion was made as a way to control people.
"Do things this way and obey those above you or else all this will happen to you after death for eternity".

It isn't needed in a modern day society as the possibility of their actually being this so called "all powerful, all mighty deity" seems pretty much impossible.
He apparently existed in the skies. We learnt there's a space beyond the sky.
Then he exists above the skies in space. We've been into space and realised it's a bit bigger then say your neighbors back-garden.
So where is this deity hiding? If he's really so powerful and great, why doesn't he show himself and prove all this crap so he can remain in power. (covering all religions here. Not just one)

For me, I'm a man of science, technology, and bloody obvious logic.

Another thing that gets me.
"God doesn't want this! He does not allow such!" (such as scientists to create life).
if this is true.. then why the bloody hell if he created everything did he allow so many things he doesn't want/like to be possible. And also, he/she or even they must have an infinite knowledge if everything around us was truly created from... nothingness? And if so, what created him/her/it/them?

Such religions as Buddhism and Pagan are excused from this argument as they respect and honor life and everything around us.

Oh yes, and Jesus (if the worlds first magician existed) wasn't born on the 25th of December either because of many things. The date was chosen to conflict with a Pagan festival and drive people from that so to speak.

Plus religion generally creates FAR to much aggro, problems, war, death, poverty, etc etc for me to take it seriously. It's one of the things holding the human race back I believe.


Follow cake and chocolate! wink.gif

-------------------------------
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Safir Youtube
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- The Edgeworks Forum resident Brony
   
 
Trance Oct 14 2010, 3:04pm


Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Location: 1, Rotation: 0
Posts: 6,439
Achievements: 14


'Paganism' is a term that covers many different polytheistic religions. It's pretty much just a word Christians use for "those other religions whose names I don't remember". And Buddhism has seen its own fair share of power-playing and religious wars. They happened a while ago around the area of China and you don't hear much on that front nowadays, but their religion doesn't make them immune to the temptation to do the things other religions do that we shake our heads at.

How do you know the Bible is telling the truth?
Because the Bible is God's word.
How do you know the Bible is God's word?
Because it says so in the Bible.

All aboard the Circular Logic Express. Next stop: right here.
   
 
Scar Oct 14 2010, 4:51pm


Joined: Feb 5th, 2005
Location: In your mind! :o
Posts: 1,489
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If I honestly tried to apply logic to everything little thing in my life, I'd be a cold and miserable hermit. In the five years that I've been here, this is pretty much why I've never brought up my beliefs. I know what I believe, and I'm not going to try to convince anyone here because despite the personal experiences and evidence I've seen with my own eyes, there's no way I could ever get through.

-------------------------------
   
 
Trance Oct 14 2010, 5:13pm


Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
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Posts: 6,439
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If you expect to be miserable doing that, then you probably will be. The human mind is pretty good at meeting its own bleak expectations. But I apply logic and reasoning to my understanding of the world and universe I live in, and I turned out just fine.

But it's not the little things that religion claims to know all about, but the really big things, the massive questions about existence that religion gives easy, bullshit answers to. The Big Three, for instance: Where did I come from? Why am I here? What happens when I die? I don't know what it is that makes people so eager to have those gaps in their knowledge filled in by fairy tales, but millions of people just stick a religion's prefabricated nonsense into those holes and leave it at that. No attempt is made to determine any truth in or evidence of the stuff they believe. Why does someone feel no cognitive dissonance in believing something that big without proof, or failing that, a reasonable amount of evidence?
   
 
Reaper195 Oct 14 2010, 6:56pm


Joined: Jul 25th, 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 11,109
Achievements: 18


<--quoteo(post=271760:date=Oct 13 2010, 08:50 PM:name=Trance)-->
QUOTE (Trance @ Oct 13 2010, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->oh hi guys i see you're talking about fantasy novels

i quite like lord of the rings<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
<--quoteo(post=271761:date=Oct 13 2010, 09:16 PM:name=Disease)-->
QUOTE (Disease @ Oct 13 2010, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->wait wait wait wait wait . . .

Lord of the Rings is a fantasy? WTF!?<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

I thought the movies were a documentory about New Zealand! What the hell, man!?


As for the other jokes of Trance, I've always prefered the - "Have you been saved?"
"*looks horrified* Oh god, NO! I need to find a save point! Shit, I think there was one back that way next to the upgrade station!"

-------------------------------

"Help! That sinister looking kid is coming to kill me! Help! HELP!"

Hail to the king, baby!
Always Blow On The Pie


Time waits for no one. So you better get busy living, or get busy dying.
   
 
Sarge McCla Oct 15 2010, 5:04am


Joined: Aug 17th, 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,112
Achievements: 11


<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->On a related note, I went to a mormon church (keep in mind I'm an atheist now) because I had to do a community classroom observation. The mormon church is... interesting. By which I mean they're all dumb asses. Nice as hell, but morons.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

I once stumbled upon an anti-war protest at my college. Liberals are interesting...by which I mean they're all dumbasses. Nice (occasionally), but morons tongue.gif.


Bigotry against Christianity. The last acceptable prejudice in the Western world. Wonder if they'll frown upon it years from now like most folks frown upon anti-semitism. Historical pattern indicates otherwise. Christianity incompatible with victim mentality necessary to become a protected class. Nero fed Christians to lions. Red China fed machinegun fire to Christians. Church's in mid east bombed regularly. You'd think the libs would give us some compassion. But I digress.


<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->Religion was made as a way to control people.
"Do things this way and obey those above you or else all this will happen to you after death for eternity".<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

Do you have some evidence to back up that claim? I find in my research that its is inherently more difficult to subdue people of faith, specifically faith in Judeo-Christian theology. Civil Rights movement, for instance, started in the churches. Same with abolition, and Women's suffrage. All rebellious against the status qou. Its not perfect, but my theory is that people who have God are less likely to be persuaded by cults of personality. Less susceptible to tyranny. Difficult to persuade total loyalty to the state when citizen has total loyalty to an entity he or she considers above the state.


<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->It isn't needed in a modern day society as the possibility of their actually being this so called "all powerful, all mighty deity" seems pretty much impossible.
He apparently existed in the skies. We learnt there's a space beyond the sky.
Then he exists above the skies in space. We've been into space and realised it's a bit bigger then say your neighbors back-garden.
So where is this deity hiding? If he's really so powerful and great, why doesn't he show himself and prove all this crap so he can remain in power.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't think the BIble ever attempts to specify the location of God.

I have a question to ask you, Geo. What would it take for you to believe God? What would God have to do to prove his existence to you? I'd actually would love every atheist to answer this.

<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->"God doesn't want this! He does not allow such!" (such as scientists to create life)<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

A straw man at best. Who is arguing against creating life? Why? What precisely are these people upset about. You've constructed an argument that doesn't exist. If you're talking about stem cell research, then you've clearly missed the actual objections people have to it.

<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->Such religions as Buddhism and Pagan are excused from this argument as they respect and honor life and everything around us.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm sure you're leaving out the Pagan religions that involved human sacrifice. Am I right? Avoid blanket generalizations if possible.

<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->Oh yes, and Jesus (if the worlds first magician existed) wasn't born on the 25th of December either because of many things. The date was chosen to conflict with a Pagan festival and drive people from that so to speak.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

So what? Everybody knows that. All theologians and Biblical historians will agree that Jesus wasn't born in winter (They were the ones who figured that out). He was likely born in spring. Who cares? How is this a refutation of Christianity? My birthday is on the 29th of October. I won't be celebrating it on the 29th of October, rather I will be celebrating it a week later on a Saturday I'm off of work. Does that refute me? What's you're point?

<--quoteo-->
QUOTE
<--quotec-->Plus religion generally creates FAR to much aggro, problems, war, death, poverty, etc etc for me to take it seriously. It's one of the things holding the human race back I believe.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

This is just nonsense. The Crusades (all of them) killed an estimated 1 to 5 million people. The Spanish Inquisition had a death toll of around 32,000. The most ultra-secular regimes in the history of the planet, in less than a century, contributed to the needless deaths of 60-100 million people either through direct massacre or starvation. Yet you will never hear a mainstream argument that atheism leads to war, death and poverty. There is no, I repeat, NO correlation or causation between religion and human suffering. Your statement is mendacious.
   
 
Geo Ghost Oct 15 2010, 6:43am


Joined: May 26th, 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,952
Achievements: 15


Sarge, I won't even bother to address all points there.
Even though I can, I don't want to start arguments which is what could brew from that.

That is my view on life & religion and it will not be changed by anyone (And trust me, I'm a hard rock to shift). If you can't take it, don't dish it is a phrase I often use.
People can have their beliefs. I don't really care either-way. However, when people start telling me what I should do, and what everyone else should do cos of what they believe, THAT'S when I get hacked off and strike back. Like someone preaching in the street or at my door telling me what I should follow and why - I usually tell them to sod off because I hate people trying to convert me to their side. I follow my own path and welcome anyone wanting to join me but never try to force or convert people to it (if that makes sense)

I'm not atheist, I'm not anything as far as I'm concerned. I believe what ever I like to and want to and refuse to be categorized into something.

However, to go back on some points just to clear things up:

- Religion is a way of controlling people. Evidence or not you can see it. Don't get me wrong, it was a very clever idea to keep people in line and stop them from doing wrong but now the law pretty much takes over that (admittedly poorly at times but you get my drift surely). I could say the same to you by saying provide me evidence that it isn't a way of controlling people.

- Whilst the bible may not state a location, many people used to say "heaven is in the clouds" kind of thing and hell is in the Earth. This is what I mean - People would interpret it as somewhere but when it was discovered, they chose somewhere else where it could be.

- It would not take anything for me to believe in any such deity-like figures/powers. What ever religion it may be. I have a slight belief in possibly spirits but that's about it. I will never believe that such all-powerful godly figures exist just because a book or people in a building say they do. A book once told me that a slightly obese bloke in a green or red suit would come down a chimney and put presents under a tree and ride off in a magical sleigh. Or that someone told me a giant rabbit came and gave people chocolate once a year. Do I believe those? Of course not. wink.gif
I cannot fathom how on earth such a deity figure can exist when we know that the Earth has been around for millions of years, that there's billions of kinds of life on our planet alone that has changed, evolved or adapted as time has gone by. Plus all the very likely theories about how many many things were created/formed.
I trust the guys with white lab coats, incredible IQs and doctorate degrees as opposed to someone in a building/city shouting about something which, quite frankly, NEVER has been proven to everyone. Ever.

- The scientists creating life (cellular life) was an example Sarge. I was not referring to stem-cell research (If I was, I would have said that). But the point applies to anything. If we were not allowed to do it or not suppose to, then why is it possible. It can be applied to many thinks including homosexuality. If that really is so bad, then why does it exist for some people. You get my thinking there anyway.

- All I know about the two other religions I mentioned is that they don't appear to have a all-mighty deity figure. I do not know about them fully or in detail hence why I only mentioned them briefly.

- I'm aware that many people know that Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December (If he existed at all that is in the way a book makes out). However, if the date was somewhat a fib, then how much else is fabricated or lies? It's trusting words on pages of books that were written centuries ago or not millenniums. I frankly don't trust it. The bible could have been a story book that someone wrote and Jesus didn't turn water into wine, he just worked in a brewery (or what ever they may have been called back then). No one will ever know unless someone finds a way to travel in time.

- How many wars are fought because of beliefs sarge? How many people have been killed for not believing what others tell them they should.
Northern Ireland, People are killed because they are not catholic or protestant. Islamic extremists killing themselves and many others because they believe and have been told it's righteous and they will be rewarded in the afterlife for it. People are abused or beaten for not believing what others tell them too (Don't deny this. It does happen)Holy Wars were fought in Asia a long time ago in which many died. Some still do fight now. Jews were horrifically abused and slaughtered in WW2 just because of their religion (This is no fault of their own. They are entitled to their beliefs but how is it fair? Thousands were murdered just because of what they believe?). And many many more.
But of course, if you can't see a link between suffering and religion there... then I will be pretty gob-smacked to say the least.


"Believe what you like to. I believe what I like to.
Never try to enforce stuff on me, and I will not to the same.
If you try to enforce your beliefs on me,
I shall knock them away and tell you what I think of everything without a care."

And I swear I said i wasn't going to go into any points (partly because It's early and I'm still tired).

Damit Sarge tongue.gif Now I'm knackered again.

Final note: I'm not going to bother typo-checking as I want to go get some breakfast wink.gif

-------------------------------
Safir Group Website
Safir Youtube
F



- The Edgeworks Forum resident Brony
   
 
Trance Oct 15 2010, 8:18am


Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Location: 1, Rotation: 0
Posts: 6,439
Achievements: 14


<--quoteo(post=271790:date=Oct 15 2010, 04:04 AM:name=Sarge McCla)-->
QUOTE (Sarge McCla @ Oct 15 2010, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->Bigotry against Christianity. The last acceptable prejudice in the Western world. Wonder if they'll frown upon it years from now like most folks frown upon anti-semitism. Historical pattern indicates otherwise. Christianity incompatible with victim mentality necessary to become a protected class. Nero fed Christians to lions. Red China fed machinegun fire to Christians. Church's in mid east bombed regularly. You'd think the libs would give us some compassion. But I digress.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say as soon as pastors and churches lose their property tax exemptions simply for being pastors and churches, Christian organizations stop shelling out the funding for political campaigns meant to advance their religious views (Proposition 8 for example), Christians in general stop going door-to-door peddling their religion or chastising others for externally harmless lifestyles because it "goes against the word of God", and the Christian faith is pretty much on even footing financially and morally with the average citizen, the prejudice will stop.

Btw: Christianity is in the majority. 2.2 billion followers worldwide, and over 155 million followers in the United States being Protestant alone, with another 70 million being Catholic. Roughly three-quarters of Americans are Christian. With all the crap Christians pull to keep their unfair advantage and force people to abide by their rules of living, it's a really weak tactic to try and play the victim card.

<--quoteo(post=271791:date=Oct 15 2010, 05:43 AM:name=Geo Ghost)-->
QUOTE (Geo Ghost @ Oct 15 2010, 05:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->- Religion is a way of controlling people. Evidence or not you can see it. Don't get me wrong, it was a very clever idea to keep people in line and stop them from doing wrong but now the law pretty much takes over that (admittedly poorly at times but you get my drift surely). I could say the same to you by saying provide me evidence that it isn't a way of controlling people.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, you offered the first proposition so the burden of proof is technically on you, Geo. However, the evidence I'd put forth is the concept of human religious authority, from the pastor in a Protestant church to imams to the multi-tiered hierarchy of Catholicism. Anyone below their station looks to them to find out what their God asks of them, what they should be doing with their life, what God is saying he wants. You can immediately see how easily people who've genuinely swallowed it all can be manipulated into doing things they shouldn't, like giving gobs of cash to the church or engaging in a "GOD HATES FAGS" campaign across the country.

<--quoteo(post=271790:date=Oct 15 2010, 04:04 AM:name=Sarge McCla)-->
QUOTE (Sarge McCla @ Oct 15 2010, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->What would it take for you to believe God? What would God have to do to prove his existence to you? I'd actually would love every atheist to answer this.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI

This'd be my terms.
   
 
squattingb
Oct 15 2010, 9:22am


Joined: Apr 15th, 2005
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<--quoteo(post=271790:date=Oct 15 2010, 05:04 AM:name=Sarge McCla)-->
QUOTE (Sarge McCla @ Oct 15 2010, 05:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<--quotec-->This is just nonsense. The Crusades (all of them) killed an estimated 1 to 5 million people. The Spanish Inquisition had a death toll of around 32,000. The most ultra-secular regimes in the history of the planet, in less than a century, contributed to the needless deaths of 60-100 million people either through direct massacre or starvation. Yet you will never hear a mainstream argument that atheism leads to war, death and poverty. There is no, I repeat, NO correlation or causation between religion and human suffering. Your statement is mendacious.<--QuoteEnd-->
<--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not getting into this conversation but I'd like to point out that this paragraph makes no sense and you are contradicting yourself HARDCORE.

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Aglor Oct 15 2010, 11:17am


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Sarge, I'd just like to say, in response to your question, what it would take for me to believe in a god is simple: evidence. I am an atheist because I realized I no longer believed in the Christian teachings, and was not convinced by anything else. So I am at the default state: atheist.

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